Published: March 31, 2026 at 7:15 am
Peter Cliff and Jos van der Steen tell the first episode of The Naked Founder podcast how they went from arch-enemies to best friends and eventually co-founders of CONDUCTR.
CONDUCTR creates world-class, ‘kick-ass attractions’ from its Manchester HQ and in four years, the startup has grown turnover to £26m and staff numbers to 100, with studios in the UK, US and Middle East.
The two are best friends inside and outside work, and Cliff was one of the best men at van der Steen’s recent wedding.
However, when they first met, the only fireworks they created were the kind that had colleagues running for cover.
“There was quite a lot of friction when we first started,” Cliff told The Naked Founder podcast about their early encounters at Holovis, which designs and builds immersive experiences for theme parks, attractions and visitor destinations.
“We just wanted to own the voice in the room and be the direction of it.
“There was quite a lot of bickering in the room and side conversations had to be had as people were mediating our opinions.”
For his part, van der Steen recalled: “We saw each other as threats – both ambitious with strong personalities.”
However, their enmity quickly turned to respect and a firm friendship, which often saw Cliff sleep on van der Steen’s couch during visits to Manchester.
Today, the only couch they share is in the offices at their Trafford HQ, where they run one of the UK’s most highly regarded immersive technology businesses.
You can watch the episode here